Episode 5
Post Seeking Deep Realizations 6 months after session w/ Deniz #nonduality #awakening
In this episode Emerson Nonduality and Deniz reflect on the challenges and misconceptions that often accompany the spiritual journey. They address the tendency to become attached to intellectual understandings of enlightenment, cautioning against the seductive nature of knowledge that fails to translate into experiential wisdom. The speakers share their insights on the importance of authenticity in spiritual practice, emphasizing that true liberation comes from a direct engagement with one’s experience rather than merely adhering to concepts or teachings. This leads to a thoughtful critique of the reliance on spiritual authorities, suggesting that true understanding arises from within and must be cultivated through personal inquiry and experience.
The episode serves as a reminder that the path to clarity and self-realization is not linear but rather a continuous unraveling of layers of belief and identity. Dennis underscores the notion that while seeking is a natural impulse, it is essential to recognize when seeking becomes a barrier to experiencing the present moment fully. The dialogue closes with a reflection on the beauty of the journey itself, inviting listeners to embrace the uncertainties of their own paths while celebrating the moments of connection and insight that arise along the way. This episode not only challenges conventional notions of spiritual seeking but also inspires listeners to engage deeply with their own consciousness, fostering a sense of empowerment and curiosity in their personal journeys.
Post Seeking Deep Realizations
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Transcript
Sa.
Speaker A:Hey, Dennis, welcome back.
Speaker A:And tell me your story.
Speaker A:What has happened ever since.
Speaker B:Oh, no story, man.
Speaker A:No story.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, no story.
Speaker B:This is your face.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Speaker A:That's good.
Speaker B:No, no, fine.
Speaker B:Let's get into stories.
Speaker B:What would we do without.
Speaker A:Cheers to the stories.
Speaker B:Cheers, man.
Speaker B:So in this story, last time you and I spoke, it was six months ago, and I had my awakening at that time.
Speaker B:And how I define the awakening is it's just like, oh, why is this body all autonomous all of a sudden?
Speaker B:You know, like, what is this mind?
Speaker B:Like, what am I thinking about?
Speaker B:What am I saying?
Speaker B:Why am I thinking that?
Speaker B:You know, it's like just realizing the autonomous nature of things.
Speaker B:And when that happened six months ago, it's sort of like a prolonged glimpse.
Speaker B:So you and I connected for the, I think, second time.
Speaker B:Because first time we connected, it was maybe more than a year ago.
Speaker B:So, yeah, we connected.
Speaker B:And at that time, what happened is this character here got stuck in knowing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It generated the belief system.
Speaker B:It was like, oh, look, I can see these fleeting sense objects, you know, one after another, one after another, you know, it's the same in the dream.
Speaker B:Same.
Speaker B:The waking state.
Speaker B:That's what it is.
Speaker B:This is the reality.
Speaker B:And all there is to these fleeting sense objects is the knowing of it, the awareness of it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:The attention here, it's not yours.
Speaker B:It's not your awareness, but there's awareness here.
Speaker B:See, that's a very.
Speaker B:How do you say in English, it's a slippery slope.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker B:Once you.
Speaker B:Once you get in that road.
Speaker B:And there's a legitimacy to it, too.
Speaker B:It's not.
Speaker B:It's not a crazy idea to.
Speaker A:No, no, no, no.
Speaker B:This is awareness, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And especially saying that being aware of being aware.
Speaker B:Oh, my God, it makes.
Speaker B:It is 99% there.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I know what you're saying.
Speaker A:For the mind.
Speaker A:The mind, right?
Speaker B:For.
Speaker B:Mind loves that stuff.
Speaker B:It wants that knowing, you know, it wants that shot of give me that knowing.
Speaker B:I want to know.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's a landing.
Speaker A:It's where it can.
Speaker A:It can land and it can foster.
Speaker A:It can thrive.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's what happened to me.
Speaker B:And I remember it's just a story.
Speaker B:It's not real.
Speaker B:But in the story, in that call were like, no, no, man.
Speaker B:There's no knowing.
Speaker B:There's no awareness.
Speaker B:I was like, no, you don't know.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:You don't know.
Speaker A:You don't know.
Speaker B:What do you you don't have this.
Speaker A:I love that when you said that.
Speaker A:It's like you didn't get this.
Speaker A:No, no, no.
Speaker A:You don't know.
Speaker B:So after the call, I was like, you know, you call yourself a speaker.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:You don't know, man.
Speaker B:So then I got really deep in awareness, you know, in attention.
Speaker B:And, you know, I started studying it, I started analyzing it, and, you know, having, you know, Nurvikalpa, Samadhi, and, you know, savikava, you name it, like all sorts of Samadhis.
Speaker B:Oh, this is that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then it started tying into, oh, I am that.
Speaker A:That's right, man.
Speaker A:Yeah, you did.
Speaker A:Yeah, of course.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So then, because it is such a tricky thing at that point, there's already like the.
Speaker B:The mind.
Speaker B:Not that there is one, but the mind is not creating a character.
Speaker B:The mind is not creating a past anymore.
Speaker B:It's just this.
Speaker B:It's just sun shining.
Speaker B:It's just this happening.
Speaker B:So at that moment, everything is so real, you know, so it is so easy to fall into the trap of, oh, this is awareness, of course.
Speaker B:What else can it be?
Speaker B:Because this is I am.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:You became the I am.
Speaker B:I am.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's tricky.
Speaker A:Yeah, it is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:And it's a solidity that.
Speaker A:That you believe, because many people have said it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You have reference points to it.
Speaker A:You have this, of course.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Because I'm also reinforcing it every day.
Speaker B:Every day I made new friends who are, by the way, amazing, amazing people.
Speaker B:I made so many friends who are coming from that lineage.
Speaker B:You know, we talk about love, we talk about God, and we are that.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:And that can be beautiful.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But it is not authentic.
Speaker B:At some point, after six months, paradoxically, unraveling is also still ongoing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So then the mind is also creating a scenario here.
Speaker B:Well, if this wasn't authentic, if this wasn't real, why more unraveling is happening.
Speaker A:It's a never ending.
Speaker A:That's what it is.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker A:The mind is looking for a pit stop or a full stop or a.
Speaker A:Or a location.
Speaker A:Yeah, sorry.
Speaker A:Keep on going.
Speaker A:Keep on going.
Speaker B:No, no, you're right.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:That's what it wants.
Speaker B:It wants that continuity.
Speaker B:It wants that cause and effect.
Speaker B:Oh, this unraveling is happening because I'm following the awareness.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, the mind loves that.
Speaker B:It just takes, okay, this event, this event, this event.
Speaker B:Put them all together on a timeline, from past towards the future, and hear the moment.
Speaker B:This moment.
Speaker B:Voila.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker B:I figured this out.
Speaker B:So also the bliss thing is also quite a trap too.
Speaker B:And what I mean by bliss is that sense of deep sleep.
Speaker B:Like when you wake up in the middle of deep sleep, you go to bathroom and that.
Speaker B:Just that cozy feeling.
Speaker B:Oh, I want to go back to bed and I feel so good.
Speaker B:That's available all the time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So then that's another.
Speaker B:What do you call an English honey trap.
Speaker B:It is like.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:If this, this path wasn't the right one, why am I getting this?
Speaker B:It's there all the time.
Speaker B:All I have to do is just.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Be aware of, beware.
Speaker B:And then boom.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But then what happened?
Speaker A:I was ready.
Speaker B:It's not, it's not real.
Speaker B:It doesn't happen.
Speaker B:It's a story.
Speaker B:It's fake.
Speaker B:But in this story, what happened is maybe a week ago or something.
Speaker B:And it was sort of a build up too.
Speaker B:It was like.
Speaker B:I didn't feel, I felt like I was lying to myself.
Speaker B:It's like an intuition which is also an appearance anyway.
Speaker B:Plus it's a story, it's not real, it's just fake.
Speaker B:Yeah, but in the story it felt that this is no longer honest, you know, I am not that because I.
Speaker B:If I am, then you have to be.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You define me.
Speaker B:Without me, there is no you.
Speaker B:It's just hot and cold.
Speaker B:It's the same thing.
Speaker B:It's just one scale.
Speaker B:Without hot, there's no cold.
Speaker A:Without me, it's just an opposite of I am.
Speaker B:Not exactly.
Speaker B:So if I am defined by I am, then you have to be, but you don't exist.
Speaker B:So it just, it was just too obvious that it's a mental construct.
Speaker B:You know, whether you call yourself this capital I capital self, the, you know, it doesn't matter.
Speaker B:I am creates, you are, I am creates the other, the other creates I am.
Speaker B:It's just awareness creates an a knowing.
Speaker B:Knowing is.
Speaker B:There's a knower and then there's a known.
Speaker B:What is knowing?
Speaker B:Also knowing is a thought appearance.
Speaker B:So it just doesn't hold.
Speaker B:It just collapses in, in every angle you hit it.
Speaker B:It just doesn't work.
Speaker B:Having said that, it, it can create states.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I've had a lot of those and, and I've known a lot of people who've been in, you know, constant samadhi.
Speaker B:You know, obviously it comes and goes too, but at the end of the day, it's a belief, you know, whether you think yourself as an individual separate self or you think yourself as that fine, which cannot be named, but doesn't matter.
Speaker B:If you think you are that, then, then that's a belief too.
Speaker B:And the day that I said, you know, screw this, man, I don't want to follow that belief anymore.
Speaker B:The next morning I woke up grand theater.
Speaker B:Everything is just, just like.
Speaker B:It's just this.
Speaker B:It's different now.
Speaker B:But I see different now.
Speaker B:I can only say different now because of the mind, because mine has to come in and say, oh, it was different.
Speaker A:Reference point now of different now.
Speaker A:And yeah, right, so the past is another, another fabrication to create this moment as different.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But it seems a bit like now.
Speaker B:It's a bit like a free fall right now.
Speaker B:It's just a free fall all the time.
Speaker B:All the time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's what I mean with it.
Speaker A:That's a never ending unraveling because there's nothing to grasp onto anymore.
Speaker A:And it's not a nihilistic, like there's no one here because that's just another landing.
Speaker A:Or I am, which is just the opposite of I am not here.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So what's in between that if you go directly into it, what's between I am and I am not.
Speaker B:There is nothing.
Speaker B:But also the question isn't answerable.
Speaker A:It cannot.
Speaker A:Yeah, it cannot.
Speaker A:It's the, the in between.
Speaker B:They're both concepts.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Because if you look, if you listen to the.
Speaker A:The one on ones, basically.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:The in between, it's like a trick to end all tricks.
Speaker A:There's really no in between because there's no opposites.
Speaker B:By the way, I cut you off.
Speaker B:For seven months I have not been listening to any of your videos.
Speaker B:So I don't know your message anymore.
Speaker B:Man, I really dislike.
Speaker B:I disliked you so much when you didn' Acknowledge that this is awareness.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't want to say hate, but you know, for seven months, you know, we were not on the same path, my friend.
Speaker B:So got your message and everything.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I, I can saw that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because there was this belief that you wanted to uphold and I kept on shutting it down in a loving way, of course.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because there's, you know, there's an openness to everything.
Speaker A:But at the same time, if you came and paid for this, I'm going to be direct with you.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And because I've been there, I've been there, you know, saying I've been to all sorts of samadhi.
Speaker A:I got obsessed with this and that and I am and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:And for a lack of a better word, it's not it.
Speaker A:You can believe it is it but the one that believes that it is.
Speaker A:It is just a fabrication.
Speaker A:So anything that stems from an eye, there's an eye behind it.
Speaker A:So what do you.
Speaker A:What are you without the eye behind anything?
Speaker B:Not even answerable.
Speaker B:Again, I think the best thing to say is that.
Speaker B:Although I.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:So if there's an I don't know, what's the eye that doesn't know?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So it's like I just keep on going further.
Speaker A:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker A:Because.
Speaker B:Yeah, even I don't.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:That's your point.
Speaker B:It's just cannot be known.
Speaker B:It cannot be normal.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Because who is separate from this to know who's separate from theater to.
Speaker B:You see, you can actually hit it in so many angles.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You can hit it from one angle and say, like, at the.
Speaker B:Like the top layer, you can say in this grand theater that is like all these apparent characters doing apparent things.
Speaker B:Who is outside this character to know outside this theater, to look at this theater and say, oh, this is what is happening here.
Speaker B:There's no one.
Speaker B:We're all characters.
Speaker B:We're all being done.
Speaker B:That's one layer you can say.
Speaker B:And then if you dig deeper, then they're just.
Speaker B:There's no theater because there's nothing going on.
Speaker B:All there is is fleeting sense objects.
Speaker A:Yeah, but then.
Speaker A:But if you look at that, all of that is just fabricated by the mind again, 100%.
Speaker B:I'm just going deeper.
Speaker A:Okay, okay, go, go.
Speaker B:Walk with me.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You can even say, oh, there's no fleeting sense object here either.
Speaker B:Because for you to say a change, you have to know there is a before.
Speaker B:Before comes from the mind.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Not enough.
Speaker B:We can go deeper.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:If it's not enough, it will want to go after.
Speaker A:So the mind only can only go before and after.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But when it's.
Speaker A:When it's.
Speaker A:When it's spotlighted in this moment, like, for example, at this moment, what do you believe?
Speaker A:Without going to the past or the future, Stay there.
Speaker A:So in that.
Speaker A:In that.
Speaker A:In this instance, if there's no past or future, is there anything that's missing right now?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Is there anything that is.
Speaker A:So what's between complete and not complete?
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:Well, stay here for a bit.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And this is sobriety.
Speaker A:This is clarity without language, without dogma, without anything passed on by another person because you went there yourself.
Speaker A:And then when you go there yourself, you know, saying without the idea of the Past or the future, where is the self?
Speaker A:Whereas the no self.
Speaker A:So it's in between self and no self.
Speaker A:What's there?
Speaker B:Silence.
Speaker B:But silence is also a word.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:So what's between silence and not silence?
Speaker A:Just keep on going because the.
Speaker A:The mind will try to come.
Speaker A:Come up with something.
Speaker B:It doesn't come up with anything from.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker B:Silence.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, Good.
Speaker B:But can you.
Speaker B:Can you work with me?
Speaker B:Yeah, I want to go deeper in the layer that I was at.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:So we started from the movie.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Went down to fleeting sense objects.
Speaker B:Then we said, it doesn't make sense because there's no nothing fleeting, without the mind showing you what's before and what's after.
Speaker B:So then.
Speaker B:Now let's go deeper.
Speaker B:Well, there's no object because an object, a form, is defined by the mind again.
Speaker B:So the mind used to come in and label it and say, oh, it is this sense object or that touch or this.
Speaker B:So you let that go too.
Speaker B:Go one layer deeper.
Speaker B:What happens now?
Speaker B:You get colors and forms.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Colors and lines.
Speaker B:I'm sorry?
Speaker B:Colors and lines.
Speaker B:That's fine.
Speaker B:Without the mind, colors and lines are observable by no one.
Speaker B:But they're observable.
Speaker B:But don't stay there.
Speaker B:Let's go deeper, one layer deeper.
Speaker B:Then this is it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:This is the moment where.
Speaker A:Let me go even deeper.
Speaker A:But why do you even take away the language right now?
Speaker B:I'm going deeper.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What do you want?
Speaker B:I'm not done.
Speaker A:Okay, go ahead, Go ahead.
Speaker A:Sorry, sorry.
Speaker B:There's more.
Speaker B:We're going.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's just.
Speaker B:There's no reason why I'm doing this.
Speaker B:It's just for fun.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:You know, it's just for fun.
Speaker B:Absolutely no.
Speaker B:No reason.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:So where am I?
Speaker B:With the colors?
Speaker A:Colors and pixels and line.
Speaker B:Yeah, like pixels.
Speaker B:And at this level now, you said something to me six months ago, which now it is now making sense.
Speaker B:It's a story.
Speaker B:No, Six months ago.
Speaker B:But in the stories, just for the fun, you said, well, you could be staring at a God and you wouldn't know that at that layer.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:This could very well be God or a monster or.
Speaker B:Or whatever it is.
Speaker B:And there's absolutely no knowing it.
Speaker B:Not only there is no knower as a subject knowing this, but knowing itself is an appearance, a thought appearance.
Speaker B:And at the same time, who's gonna.
Speaker B:Who's outside this to know this?
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker A:Who'S the one who's staring?
Speaker A:Who's being stared at?
Speaker A:If you take away the who, then there's A staring.
Speaker A:If you take away the staring, then what's there.
Speaker B:And this layer.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Is when.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:The deep sleep sense that I mentioned earlier, Nicole.
Speaker B:I think it was before the recording.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:This is when it kicks in.
Speaker B:So when you come to this recognition, it isn't you coming to this recognition, but this is happening.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:In the story.
Speaker B:And, and, and the moment you're there, the deep sleep feeling kicks in and then you're feeling.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:And if you have not watched it in the past six months, that's what I've been doing.
Speaker A:Just going directly into that.
Speaker A:So what they usually do is I position an opposite, and then when you position an opposite with an opposite, I tell a person to go in between that, to see what's in between.
Speaker A:But since there are no opposites, there's no.
Speaker A:No in between really.
Speaker A:So it.
Speaker A:It takes all the layers out.
Speaker A:You're like, oh.
Speaker A:And I'm like, so what is it?
Speaker B:Oh, like a straight shot.
Speaker A:Straight shot.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And then all of a sudden they're in that language list, you know, bliss.
Speaker A:Kind of like nothing happening.
Speaker A:Everything's happening.
Speaker A:An unspeakable thing.
Speaker A:So you're in direct contact, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:With what you're looking for, but you cannot figure it out because what's looking for is the illusion.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What's being looked at is not separate from what's looking.
Speaker A:So what's seeking is also what is being sought.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So it.
Speaker A:It blurs all that lines.
Speaker A:And then the mind wants to kick in.
Speaker A:Wants to kick in.
Speaker A:It will say it's nothing, but nothing is just another fabrication who knows that it's nothing.
Speaker A:So what I usually do.
Speaker A:I said, what's between nothing and not nothing?
Speaker A:And then they go into that.
Speaker A:That I can't speak about.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So it doesn't matter.
Speaker A:Awareness.
Speaker A:Non awareness.
Speaker A:I am.
Speaker A:I am not.
Speaker A:They just become.
Speaker A:They just become.
Speaker A:You know, who cares?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Who cares?
Speaker B:Also who knows what?
Speaker B:What no one knows what they're talking about.
Speaker B:Do you know what you're talking about?
Speaker A:No idea.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:That's not a good thing when you're a speaker, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker A:Because people are like, well, I'm not gonna listen to him because he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Speaker A:Because the mind wants to latch on, to know.
Speaker A:But this has nothing to do with knowing.
Speaker A:Knowing will just keep on.
Speaker A:Bring bring you back to more knowing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And what's knowing really?
Speaker A:So you know that, you know, it's kind of fun.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:When I was in that knowing phase.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It was great to see all the sorts of different kinds of samadhi and the different kinds of teachings.
Speaker A:And it was just.
Speaker A:And I was just hoarding the ideas of enlightenment in my head and I was just so full of it, basically for lack of admit, you know, I was just full of it.
Speaker A:Walking around encyclopedic knowledge about awakening and enlightenment and what's that going to do?
Speaker A:You can have all the knowing that you can.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I took also a lot of notes.
Speaker A:I remember it's almost, it's almost like running the opposite direction of what you're looking for when you get to know.
Speaker A:To know.
Speaker A:To know, to know, to know.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:And that's what happened.
Speaker B:That is very true.
Speaker B:Yeah, that is so true.
Speaker B:You're right.
Speaker B:It is the.
Speaker B:You got to go the other way.
Speaker B:Not less knowing, not more.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's almost like.
Speaker A:It's almost like an unhoarding of knowing.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Because see how one of the religions.
Speaker B:One of the religions, it may be Buddhism or Advaita, I don't know.
Speaker B:It's like they have a map.
Speaker B:And in that map I think the final stage is like burn the books.
Speaker B:Do you know what it is?
Speaker B:It kind of makes sense.
Speaker A:I don't remember, but I did, you know, a version of that when it all clicked in, that there's nothing to click in.
Speaker A:I used to be.
Speaker A:I've repeated this story a million times, but I used to have my go to books in a carry on luggage.
Speaker A:It's what I would save in a fire basically because that was so important to me.
Speaker A:10, 20 books or something that I just carried around.
Speaker A:And I had Kindle too, and I had everything.
Speaker A:But that was my main thing because I loved, you know, turning on the pages and looking at scriptures and the Bhagavad Gita and you know, the Upanishads and the.
Speaker A:I am that.
Speaker A:All of that, you know, Ramana Nisargada, much respect to be honest.
Speaker A:But I threw them all out because that's what that was what was defeating my mental frenzy, my mental psychosis or.
Speaker A:Or neurosis of what this is because the mental has completed a complete fabrication of it.
Speaker A:And it's teaching this fabrication to everybody when it should be an unteaching, should be kind of like taking away so that you go back into that.
Speaker A:That innocence.
Speaker B:Yeah, that.
Speaker A:That place where you can't even say anything.
Speaker A:Kind of like when you came out of the womb and everything was, you know, Pristine.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So it's back to that basically.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So kind of like what.
Speaker A:When I ask you what story, that's what it is.
Speaker A:Because there's going to be some mental fabrications and it's almost like having a cold.
Speaker A:A mental cold.
Speaker A:You know, it's, it's, it's something that you're trying to get rid of.
Speaker A:But when it goes away, when there's clarity, when there's sobriety, all those books don't matter anymore.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So what I did is I, I just threw them out and I felt so much lighter, you know, I didn't have to carry those books basically anymore.
Speaker A:And again, much respect to, you know, authors and teachers and stuff like that, but for this character, that's what drove my insanity into seeking.
Speaker A:That's when I give up everything because I would believe everything.
Speaker A:Because I was a very devout student.
Speaker A:I wanted to believe what was being said there.
Speaker A:So I would just purify myself.
Speaker B:I said, it's a nice story.
Speaker A:It's a nice story.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But just a story.
Speaker A:It's just a story.
Speaker A:And then of course there is also this character which is the opposite of that story that wants to rebel and be an anarchist.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was just flip flopping back and forth to that.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So it's in between the story and the non story.
Speaker B:You know, I want to say something that doesn't click with me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, it was between this story and that story or no story.
Speaker B:Oh, how do you say that?
Speaker B:It's a bit, it feels a bit like who am I?
Speaker B:Question to me.
Speaker B:Which never connected with me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I thought I'm gonna understand what I mean, like what Ramana means.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:By who am I?
Speaker B:When I wake up, it is finished, it is done.
Speaker B:I still don't understand what he means by the questions where.
Speaker A:Yeah, who.
Speaker B:If you ask who is I?
Speaker B:I can understand the value in that, you know, who is I?
Speaker B:Yeah, there's value.
Speaker A:I'm just trying to make opposite, trying to see the opposites to that.
Speaker A:There's no opposites really.
Speaker A:So it's between the absolute.
Speaker B:Opposite of the same thing.
Speaker B:They're just one thing.
Speaker B:Hot and cold is the same thing.
Speaker B:They're both concepts, but they're together.
Speaker B:They are attached.
Speaker A:But that's just another idea.
Speaker B:Yeah, of course, of course, of course.
Speaker B:But they rise together.
Speaker B:They have to rise together.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's just another idea.
Speaker A:I'm just playing with you.
Speaker A:But you know what I'm saying, right?
Speaker A:Because it's easy to get.
Speaker A:It's easy to get caught up in saying that I gel with that and I don't gel with that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What's behind that?
Speaker A:You said call me out.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So we'll do that.
Speaker B:Do that.
Speaker B:Silence.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Because the moment that you say that, I gel with that and I don't gel with that.
Speaker A:Who's saying that?
Speaker B:Oh, wait, yeah, let's get there.
Speaker B:Let's go there.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Because that's what happened there, right?
Speaker A:It's like that.
Speaker A:I don't get that.
Speaker A:Or I get that.
Speaker A:And that's the.
Speaker A:That's how.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's.
Speaker A:That's how subtle it is.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It creeps in there.
Speaker B:Oh, who doesn't get the.
Speaker B:Who am I?
Speaker A:Yes, exactly.
Speaker B:No one.
Speaker B:Of course.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Even saying that I resonate with that or I don't resonate with it.
Speaker A:Who's resonating?
Speaker B:Yeah, but that's the tricky part.
Speaker B:Yeah, of course you're right.
Speaker B:But the tricky part is because we're speaking.
Speaker B:Who is speaking?
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:So it's just two computers speaking.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's like a ones and zeros, basically.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So what's between a one and a zero?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't understand that.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker B:Ask me differently.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And that's the point.
Speaker A:That's the point is not to get you to latch onto a question, because the moment that you understand it, who's understanding it?
Speaker A:Yeah, Understanding cuts through the narrative right away.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's cut to the narrative and appearance it is.
Speaker B:It doesn't appear.
Speaker B:It doesn't.
Speaker B:It doesn't.
Speaker B:There's no one understanding it.
Speaker B:Understanding is arising.
Speaker B:That is an appearance.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker B:Just like knowing is arising.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But also opposite of that is also.
Speaker A:Can also arise.
Speaker A:I don't know that it's also.
Speaker A:Or I don't.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, man.
Speaker B:That is so true.
Speaker B:That is absolutely true.
Speaker B:I know this or I don't know this are both on the same scale.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:So it's not even.
Speaker B:I don't know this.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:The thing with.
Speaker A:With teachers and gurus and everything is especially kind of like a manipulative.
Speaker A:One will try to confuse you by saying that energetically.
Speaker A:I feel this way.
Speaker A:This is my own, you know, this is my own.
Speaker A:This.
Speaker A:This is my intuition is saying.
Speaker A:Or, you know, this is.
Speaker A:This is whatever.
Speaker A:Then if you want to trip up that teacher.
Speaker A:Well, who's saying that?
Speaker A:What's behind that?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Because it Comes because the, it's, you know, listening to, you know, speakers like me, it's a, it's a trap.
Speaker A:Or any speakers by that matter.
Speaker A:It's because there's already an advantage of a position that someone knows here.
Speaker B:Of course.
Speaker A:Yeah, of course.
Speaker B:Or someone who doesn't.
Speaker A:Or someone who doesn't know.
Speaker A:Someone that's empty and everything.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So no matter what the fabrication is, if the, if the speaker is sincere, I guess it's going to say, I have no idea.
Speaker A:But here's, here's, here's what I see with no idea.
Speaker A:It's because.
Speaker A:But no idea can also be an idea.
Speaker A:Opposition.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So what I usually say is do not buy into what, what, what's being said that read between the lines.
Speaker A:If there's clarity there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:If it zaps you in some moments, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker A:Because there's going to be some zapping moments.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And that's why people book.
Speaker A:This is to zap.
Speaker A:And that's beautiful.
Speaker B:Just words.
Speaker A:English words.
Speaker B:But you know what's beautiful?
Speaker B:Sun doesn't need a story to shine.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:It just shines.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:The wind, it blows on your face.
Speaker B:It just.
Speaker B:There's no need for a story.
Speaker A:No, no, no.
Speaker B:You just feel the wind and that's it.
Speaker A:But the story is also beautiful in a matter.
Speaker B:Story is also it.
Speaker B:Yeah, but it's not needed.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker A:Especially the internal.
Speaker B:There's nothing wrong with it.
Speaker A:For, for, for, for this character, it was a never ending barrage of thoughts.
Speaker A:Like the moment that I would wake up, thoughts would.
Speaker A:You know, it's almost like they're preparing for something to wake up and all of a sudden it takes over right away.
Speaker A:So I never really had those and I had severe anxiety.
Speaker A:So any.
Speaker A:Every moment for me was, was just a barrage of layers and layers and layers of thoughts and beliefs.
Speaker A:It was almost so knotted up that I didn't know how I functioned.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:This was during your seeking years.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So it's almost kind of like.
Speaker A:That's why when this clarity appeared, it was almost kind of like I've been there.
Speaker A:So whatever a person is saying, it's like, yep, I've been there.
Speaker A:Or if not, I'm curious to, to hear what it is.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because like, wow, how do we enter this?
Speaker A:What's that?
Speaker B:Did it drop immediately after awakening?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:How did it work for you?
Speaker A:There was the first one that kind of like people call like a Kundalini or initial awakening.
Speaker A:And everything that everything was love.
Speaker A:The bliss part Awareness, you know, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:And that lasted for quite a while until kind of like, what happened to you?
Speaker A:You're like, holy shit.
Speaker A:I'm just.
Speaker A:There's something inauthentic here.
Speaker A:Yeah, you felt that, right?
Speaker A:You know that.
Speaker A:That six months, right.
Speaker A:You know that there's something that I'm just.
Speaker B:Two months.
Speaker B:It was just unbearable.
Speaker B:Yeah, I felt phony.
Speaker A:Yeah, it is what happened.
Speaker B:Yeah, but.
Speaker B:But the phony feeling kept on disappearing, kept on appearing for the character.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, and that's great.
Speaker B:It's like it.
Speaker B:You know, there's a great lady Jeannie Erickson YouTube channel, but although she's in the awareness camp, I'm God camp, she's so lovely.
Speaker B:She's so amazing.
Speaker B:And it's one thing that she kept on saying, this is sort of like our internal GPS system.
Speaker B:It's like an alarm, you know, that intuition, all the intuition is also an object.
Speaker B:It's just an appearance, but there's something there.
Speaker B:So it is.
Speaker B:It pays dividends to listen to that internal GPS system.
Speaker B:You know, when you feel phony, just investigate.
Speaker B:Maybe there's a path there.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:It's not real.
Speaker A:And then that happened to me when I was a spiritual teacher with followers already.
Speaker A:Now it's like, oh, no, this is for people.
Speaker A:Kind of like where we're beginning to notice me as a spiritual teacher.
Speaker A:And it was kind of like almost like a dead peak that was happening before that.
Speaker A:I was like, getting noticed for what I was doing, you know, helping others on the streets, that kind of thing.
Speaker A:But I knew that I was a phony.
Speaker A:I knew that.
Speaker B:What are you helping people on the streets?
Speaker A:Oh, I was.
Speaker A:I was.
Speaker A:I did the whole selfless service thing.
Speaker A:Like, I would.
Speaker B:What does that mean?
Speaker A:Breakfast?
Speaker A:You know, like, help.
Speaker A:I open up a center for people that are homeless so people can go and meditate, practice yoga, that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so the.
Speaker A:The intention was pure in the beginning, but midway through it, and it's like, am I really just doing this?
Speaker A:That phoniness came in.
Speaker A:Am I just really doing this for my own, you know, spotlight?
Speaker A:Am I doing noticed?
Speaker B:As when you said you're helping people on the streets, you know, I thought all the people get hostile.
Speaker B:But I wonder if you ever, like, approached anyone on the street who's suffering.
Speaker B:You can see that lost their mental health and talking to themselves out loud.
Speaker B:And, you know, you go to that person and say, hey, buddy, man, there's no past.
Speaker B:All there is is this thing ever happened to you.
Speaker B:Would these things they'd punch you in the face.
Speaker A:Totally.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, I just.
Speaker A:You know what I did?
Speaker A:I would.
Speaker A:I would.
Speaker A:There was this place before that you can buy tokens and you can give these tokens to people for breakfast.
Speaker A:A restaurant, basically.
Speaker A:So I would get like 50 of those and.
Speaker A:And talk to people, basically just be with them.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And then I said, hey, if you ever need a place just to hang out and everything, there's a meditation place.
Speaker A:It's free.
Speaker A:You can go there, you can practice, whatever.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I'm there if you want to see.
Speaker A:But I felt like a missionary in the middle, in the.
Speaker A:In between.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, like a messiah thing.
Speaker A:I was like, oh, no.
Speaker A:But, you know, according to a lot of people.
Speaker A:And I was also helping at risk youth.
Speaker A:So I was doing this ecstatic, you know, dynamic dances, basically, to.
Speaker A:To show kids that you can do this sober, basically, rather than that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So a lot of at risk people that have been kicked out of their houses, that kind of thing.
Speaker A:So I would have this.
Speaker A:This epic kind of like, stuff.
Speaker A:But at that time, you know what I'm saying, I was questioning everything that I was doing because I was teaching meditation and awareness practices and everything, but no one was being free.
Speaker A:Like, in the 10 years that I was teaching, I'm like, what the hell is going on here?
Speaker A:And it clicked on.
Speaker A:On in me.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, my goodness, I'm not free even.
Speaker A:What am I doing here?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm still just caught up in my ideas about awareness or caught up in my ideas about enlightenment and that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:I'm caught up in the idea that I made it and people have to make it like me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So there's one quality that I would say, sorry, I'm cutting you off, and I want you to finish this.
Speaker B:But if there's one quality in this journey.
Speaker B:There's no journey, but in this story, it will be authenticity.
Speaker B:If you're authentic with yourself, if you're.
Speaker B:How do you say it?
Speaker B:Like drinking your own Kool Aid.
Speaker B:If you're not that kind of guy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, then you will wake up.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, you will see this grand theater, this everything.
Speaker B:You will see it.
Speaker B:Totally.
Speaker B:It will be seen.
Speaker B:Not you, but it will be seen.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, the kingdom of heaven, it will open.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:When you get out of the way, basically.
Speaker A:That's what it is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It will open the.
Speaker B:The doors to heaven.
Speaker B:It will open.
Speaker A:And it is, you know, like what they say.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You know, you have to enter, you Know through an eye of a needle basically means that devote, you know, without any stories.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Then you see the kingdom or whatever.
Speaker A:And that's basically what I had, is I had a lot of baggage.
Speaker A:You know what I, I saw it clearly without any judgment or anything.
Speaker A:But the judgment started building when I was making my own pedestal, when I was making my own throne, when I was basically.
Speaker B:What kind of a judgment?
Speaker B:I mean, I still judge people, but not negatively.
Speaker B:Like I have a kid, 4 years old and 6.
Speaker B:Like I judge, like it's not like judging them, but I criticize them.
Speaker B:I mean, I prefer things to be in a different way, but it's just like, like it comes from love.
Speaker A:Oh, totally.
Speaker A:You know what?
Speaker A:There's nothing wrong with judgment.
Speaker A:I'm not saying there's something wrong, but when I was a teacher, that's what happened is that when you have on preset conditions of what it should be and then when you are adhering to someone's ideas about what this should be, then you are basically leading people astray when it's based on your mind or in your belief system or based on another belief system.
Speaker A:Because this has nothing to do with belief systems.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, I do.
Speaker B:I do.
Speaker B:And it comes from love.
Speaker B:It comes from like there's no one in you, you know, you don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker B:You don't know what you're doing.
Speaker B:How can I be angry with you for, you know, doing something that, that no one here doesn't like?
Speaker B:It just, it's stupid to even think about it.
Speaker B:You know, somebody cuts you in the traffic, there's no one in that guy doing it.
Speaker B:It's just what's happening.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So just move on.
Speaker B:But you know, but here's the interesting thing.
Speaker B:In, again, in like religious circles, I came across a post, it was like about non judgment and people think that the way to hear is through non judgment.
Speaker A:So they try the opposite side again, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:That's what I was saying.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So they try so hard to be non judgmental.
Speaker B:Oh, you know, that's happening to me.
Speaker B:But I will accept, you know, man, if judgment is arising, accept it.
Speaker B:Love that judgment.
Speaker B:That's the best judgment ever.
Speaker B:You know, when this is seen, the judgment will change anyway.
Speaker B:So just accept whatever is arising in the experience.
Speaker A:Well, what's between acceptance and rejection?
Speaker B:Yeah, it's just a story.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker B:Just for fun.
Speaker A:I know, I know, I know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:There was, there was one time that I was judging every thought That I had.
Speaker A:This is what I'm saying.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So here was, you know what, not judging others, but the moment that I judge others, I'm judging myself.
Speaker A:So the judging has gone underground now.
Speaker A:I'll say that.
Speaker A:Well, I don't judge anybody here.
Speaker A:Meanwhile, internally, I'm judging everything that's happening.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And, and that's what I'm trying to talk about.
Speaker A:That the words are just deceptions.
Speaker A:Language is an illusion.
Speaker A:Language is a fabrication.
Speaker A:So the moment that we get caught up in the language of this dream, whatever this is, then we're in the dream state, basically.
Speaker A:The awakeness is basically seeing that every single word is a fabrication.
Speaker A:Every single knowing is a delusion.
Speaker A:And even the opposite of that, the unknowing is just another delusion.
Speaker A:So anything that will present itself has an opposite.
Speaker A:This will have a.
Speaker A:Not this.
Speaker A:You will have a.
Speaker A:Not you.
Speaker A:And judgment, no judgment.
Speaker A:So in that, in between us, there's a chasm, like a void basically that, that we don't know, that we have no, no idea what it is about.
Speaker A:And then when there's just this directness, when there's just this openness into the.
Speaker A:The unknowable, basically, for a lack of a better word, the ineffable, then there is a direct connection to something that has never been disconnected.
Speaker A:Kind of like that bliss, that space.
Speaker A:So there's a contentment here that has seemingly, you know, I'm saying this is just a narrative, just increased and increased, increased increase.
Speaker A:It just never ends.
Speaker A:Discontentment.
Speaker A:And, and I love what I do, you know, I'm saying it's just something that is just.
Speaker A:Even though you have the best job.
Speaker B:In the world, man.
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker A:Yeah, I do.
Speaker B:I can't stop talking about this.
Speaker B:But this is so crazy.
Speaker B:Like I, I talk, I talk with my wife.
Speaker B:She even attended the Rupert Spires retreat.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Like a ten day retreat.
Speaker A:Oh wow.
Speaker B:And yeah, I, yeah, for me though, I mean she, she wanted to connect with me more.
Speaker B:She wanted to understand what I was going through and, and she joined.
Speaker B:And when she came back again, it's a story not real.
Speaker B:But when she came back, her ego took such a punch that.
Speaker B:Oh my God, you could see the difference.
Speaker B:Like she was in the flow.
Speaker B:It's just whatever is arising is welcome.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So the character changed a little bit.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:All they didn't need to.
Speaker B:But the one grabbing the happenings.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:You know what I mean by oh yeah?
Speaker B:When I say this, I don't know what it is.
Speaker B:But there's a grabbing of the happenings.
Speaker B:Yeah, that was still there.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:So it was still grabbing everything.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I see this.
Speaker B:I feel my feelings.
Speaker B:But the character changed.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it lasted for like, two, three weeks.
Speaker B:So I knew that it was gonna come back, she was gonna be her old self because the grabbing is still there, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:It will just create an opposite for.
Speaker B:Like, a few weeks.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, it will just create an opposite.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That's what it is.
Speaker A:For example, if somebody thinks that I got this, the next is, I don't.
Speaker A:I don't get this.
Speaker A:Or I lost.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's always the thing.
Speaker A:It's just never ending.
Speaker A:Kind of like, you know.
Speaker A:But when you take away the eye, what's an opposite?
Speaker A:When you take away the grasper, where's the opposite?
Speaker B:You, you, you, you, you, me, me, me, me, me.
Speaker A:That's what it is.
Speaker B:Then they both have to go.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:If you take away the language, then what's left?
Speaker A:Yeah, that's how simple it is.
Speaker A:But since we are in.
Speaker A:Engaged in a complexity of language, take away what's the complex and make it really simple and direct.
Speaker A:What are you without words?
Speaker A:What are you without thoughts?
Speaker A:What are you?
Speaker A:What are you without an eye?
Speaker A:What are you without the narrative?
Speaker A:What are you without the you?
Speaker B:Here's a crazy thought.
Speaker A:Go for it.
Speaker B:So imagine you've seen my YouTube channel, you know, the project manager.
Speaker A:I did, I did, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So imagine to that audience, like, 400,000 people who suffer.
Speaker A:I know, yeah.
Speaker B:Imagine I shoot a video and I talk about this to that audience.
Speaker B:Everybody's got a thing that.
Speaker B:I completely lost it, of course.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, that's an idea.
Speaker B:I wonder what would happen.
Speaker B:It would be main mainstream media.
Speaker B:Media stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah, Crazy.
Speaker A:I was talking to this dj, and I was supposed to dj, but he wanted to DJ my spot.
Speaker A:So we started talking and talking goes, so what do you do that aside from DJing?
Speaker A:And I started talking about this basically, and he.
Speaker A:He kind of like blacked out for like, maybe about like a couple of minutes, and he goes, what do you say again?
Speaker A:But I feel good.
Speaker A:He just didn't get it.
Speaker A:But something.
Speaker A:Yeah, something clicked, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker A:And then this morning, just.
Speaker A:Just the 31st, before.
Speaker A:Before new Year's, basically New Year's Eve.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And then just talking and, you know, something just clicked with him.
Speaker A:And then earlier today, I just saw that he booked a session.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:So it's no idea what this is, but something.
Speaker A:Something Was so direct, I guess.
Speaker A:And I was not even intending to do kind of like a one on one kind of thing, but I was talking regularly about what this is.
Speaker A:I can't remember what I said, but something kind of like I saw his eyes just go kind of like almost like a deer like kind of thing.
Speaker A:And he was like, you know, like.
Speaker B:It kind of works.
Speaker A:I have no idea what this is.
Speaker A:But anyway, so he just basically said, I don't know what he said, you know, I said, but I blacked out for a couple of minutes there goes, but I feel great.
Speaker A:And then he had a great DJ set because he just went in the direct.
Speaker A:He, he was talking about feeling anxious, you know, that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:This is going to be one of my biggest kind of like, you know, why did you.
Speaker B:Not that there's a cause and effect, but is there a reason why you wanted to say that?
Speaker A:Not really.
Speaker A:And then he asked me, why so calm?
Speaker A:Yeah, he goes, aside from dj, you look really calm is what he's basically trying to say.
Speaker A:Goes aside from DJing, what do you do?
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, I have this non duality thing.
Speaker A:Goes, what's that?
Speaker A:And then we just started talking about it and then.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then all he heard was what he remembered was contentment.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:For him.
Speaker A:That's, he goes, that's, that's what I'm looking for.
Speaker A:I want to look for contentment.
Speaker A:And, and then he messaged me after the DJ set.
Speaker A:Basically goes, probably the best DJ set I've ever done because I was just so on point.
Speaker A:My queuing all that kind of stuff was very on point basically.
Speaker A:And he goes, and he goes, is it because of something that we talked about before?
Speaker A:And like I have no idea.
Speaker A:And then he booked just this morning and it's just that.
Speaker A:Yeah, you know what, it's lately what I'm talking about, you know, with this directness or whatever, people don't even have to have a knowledge of what non duality is anymore.
Speaker B:I think it's even better if they don't.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So I have, I have my mom, some, some family members, you know, I'm saying that started watching some of this stuff and it clicks and if they have no idea what I'm talking, they're just curious to see what I'm talking about.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But somehow there's a, a directness that happens or something.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:You know, there was a lady who has a YouTube channel she's trying to bash non duality.
Speaker B:You know how non Duality leads people to psychosis and.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Mental problems.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And she's just really talked negatively about it.
Speaker B:Like, you know, like as if, like all the speakers are crazy.
Speaker B:And so I saw her YouTube channel and just, you know, this love for her, obviously.
Speaker B:What.
Speaker B:She doesn't know what she's talking about.
Speaker B:I don't know what I'm talking about either, but.
Speaker B:So everything she says is untrue.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:But what happened is.
Speaker B:I can understand what happened in the story.
Speaker B:Not real, but in the story, her mind conceptualized everything and nothing became experiential.
Speaker B:So that mind created a world that she knows that this is that.
Speaker B:And, and because this is that.
Speaker B:It doesn't work or it works.
Speaker B:It's just concept, concept, concept, concept.
Speaker B:And, and, and this piece isn't there.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:It's just more concepts.
Speaker A:Well, you can't really go the other way.
Speaker A:You can't really.
Speaker B:No, I am not.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's what hurts.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker B:Maybe that's why I love her so much.
Speaker B:And I got in touch and like.
Speaker B:Oh, my love.
Speaker B:I didn't say my love.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I said, you know, if there's an authenticity in you, I want to hold your hand and cross that river with you.
Speaker B:I want to be there for you.
Speaker B:And she got so mad.
Speaker A:Oh, no, she got so mad.
Speaker B:She sent me such a stinker of an email.
Speaker B:I was like.
Speaker B:Even though.
Speaker B:I mean, I read it with love too.
Speaker B:But she got really angry.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, what am I doing?
Speaker B:Yeah, why am I doing?
Speaker B:Also, yeah, my wife got mad and she was like, are you trying to hit another woman and all.
Speaker B:I was like, no, I love her.
Speaker B:Why do you love other women?
Speaker B:What are you talking about?
Speaker B:So that's, that's the lesson I learned.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, people get really hostile when they are hanging on to their beliefs.
Speaker A:That's what it is.
Speaker B:Those beliefs don't let go easily.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Totally.
Speaker A:Totally.
Speaker A:I have, you know, I have.
Speaker A:I don't have any affiliations anymore, to be honest.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You know, I.
Speaker A:I respect and love some people, you know, but I don't have any direct affiliations with a lot of people anymore.
Speaker A:I have friendships on the side, but particularly with radical non duality.
Speaker A:I don't have any.
Speaker A:Much more affiliation.
Speaker A:It's almost like I got.
Speaker A:I got casted out, you know, because I was just so blunt.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Who cares?
Speaker A:Who cares?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But it's great because you know what?
Speaker A:This has.
Speaker A:This doesn't have a label anymore.
Speaker A:What I'M doing this doesn't, you know, have any kind of like a.
Speaker A:An authority anymore.
Speaker A:Because before you know what the awareness will have, like Rupert and the radical of Tony and everything.
Speaker A:So what's in between that?
Speaker A:Basically when there's just a free flowing of authenticity, you know, it's not based on what somebody's saying or somebody's saying, just being kind of like most.
Speaker A:It's almost like this is.
Speaker A:This is all an expression anyway.
Speaker A:It's an artistic expression of something that cannot really be pinpointed.
Speaker A:And the admission, the humility that, that, that the admission of.
Speaker A:That no one knows this, including me, should be standard.
Speaker A:Because the moment that someone thinks that someone's got this, then they'll follow that person blindly.
Speaker A:And then when that person falls apart and goes into their human mishaps or whatever, then their followers get hurt.
Speaker A:Because that's what happened to me, is that I had a position that this is all consciousness, awareness, whatever what I was saying.
Speaker A:And when, when I could not hold that narrative anymore, when I was doubting everything that was kind of like, what's happening to you?
Speaker A:Then I started breaking free from that association and, well, you know.
Speaker B:You held onto it for 10 years, huh?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's a lot of years.
Speaker B:Lasted only six months.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker B:Yeah, you suck.
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker A:I'm more of.
Speaker A:I consider myself kind of like.
Speaker A:More like a loyal, loyal anarchist.
Speaker A:Like it, like I'll be loyal for quite a while and then I'll.
Speaker A:I'll go into anarchy, you know.
Speaker A:10 years.
Speaker A:You did it much better than me, Dennis.
Speaker A:You're more advanced.
Speaker B:Oh, I am.
Speaker B:So much deeper.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So much.
Speaker A:You got to it.
Speaker A:Deeper, deeper.
Speaker A:I had to.
Speaker B:I have it, man.
Speaker B:You don't have.
Speaker B:I told you.
Speaker B:I knew it.
Speaker A:So when, that, that eight years ago, when all of this kind of like the second wave of this.
Speaker A:I was just so dumbfounded I could not say anything for a month.
Speaker A:I was like.
Speaker A:Every time that I would try to articulate something and nothing would come out and.
Speaker A:And then this new kind of clarity without any, without any kind like source or anything like that, right?
Speaker A:Because I just started seeing language disappearing, belief systems kind of like going down the drain.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh my goodness, what am I going to do?
Speaker A:So it's a complete like deprivation of any thoughts or language and everything.
Speaker A:So for a month it was just kind of like what you're saying, just walking, breathing.
Speaker A:Not even that, because I didn't even know what was walking or breathing.
Speaker A:There was this clarity that was just.
Speaker A:And I didn't even know what happened.
Speaker A:It was almost like a blur, a clear blur.
Speaker A:I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker A:It was clear, but the thoughts didn't make sense anymore.
Speaker A:It's almost like I had layer that I talk about.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:That's the way I talk about colors and lines and not even that.
Speaker B:That's what I mean.
Speaker B:You can even go deeper.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it could be God that you're staring at and you'd have no idea.
Speaker A:It was just.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was just walking and then I would.
Speaker A:I would walk and then I would walk around the house and I would see a reflection of my face and I'll jump on them like, what's that?
Speaker A:Oh, yes, you've happened.
Speaker A:That happened to you too?
Speaker B:Every day.
Speaker B:Yeah, every moment.
Speaker B:Every moment I see this.
Speaker B:Oh, who's this good looking guy?
Speaker A:Who is this enlightened, good looking guy?
Speaker B:Oh, he's definitely enlightened.
Speaker A:That's hilarious.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then I would jump out of bed because my chest was moving up and down.
Speaker A:I'm like, what's happening?
Speaker A:So it was just a complete.
Speaker A:You know, I didn't even know what a body is.
Speaker A:I didn't even know what seeing is.
Speaker A:Smell.
Speaker A:It was just.
Speaker A:It was kind of like, you know what?
Speaker A:I reread that book because someone said, read this book by Dr.
Speaker A:Jill Bolte Taylor about the stroke of insight.
Speaker A:And it's almost like a stroke that happened.
Speaker A:And I was just.
Speaker A:I know, back and forth, but there was no physical, like I was not like in a.
Speaker A:In a.
Speaker A:In a hospital bed or anything.
Speaker A:I was just really just breathing, laughing, you know, eating and everything in between.
Speaker A:And a whole month went by and.
Speaker A:And then after that there was this clarity, clarity that I could not comprehend.
Speaker A:A clarity that the moment that I spoke, it was like muddying the waters.
Speaker A:So I didn't speak for a while.
Speaker A:I didn't really articulate it.
Speaker A:I just didn't care.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:There was just this.
Speaker A:I was not a part of any non.
Speaker A:Duality community.
Speaker A:And then when I came back into the city, it was almost like, I want to talk to someone about this.
Speaker A:Because you know what, it's bizarre, but it's also.
Speaker A:There's a part of me that wanted to share this authenticity.
Speaker A:You know, I'm saying there's a part of me that wanted to.
Speaker A:To just speak about this, although I could not speak about it.
Speaker A:So that was the dilemma.
Speaker B:Oh man, it's uncontainable, that desire to want to talk.
Speaker B:Not just talk, just engage in this, this Conversation, you know?
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, it is.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Oh, I wanna.
Speaker B:I wanna get someone and just stay for like eight hours.
Speaker B:Let's just talk.
Speaker B:Non duality.
Speaker B:Tell me your story.
Speaker B:You have the best job in the world.
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker B:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:And the people that I see that are people, because before I had a lot of doubts because I always questioned myself.
Speaker A:I'm like, are they better off without me?
Speaker A:Am I causing more harm than good?
Speaker A:There's people that would.
Speaker A:Would, for example, have sobriety and then they go into heavy relapse.
Speaker A:And I would feel badly about that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I would feel guilt about that, although it has nothing to do with me.
Speaker A:But I felt that I was taking care of this community and everything, and I wanted to fix everybody.
Speaker B:And then I realized, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:This is just a story.
Speaker A:But now I see people unraveling.
Speaker A:Like, there's someone.
Speaker A:I get beautiful emails, and I know it has nothing to do with me, but I love seeing that freedom blossoming.
Speaker A:Yeah, right.
Speaker A:There's this person that messaged to me that I haven't talked to my mom like that in years.
Speaker A:And to me, that's the thing.
Speaker A:It's not about dissociating and depersonalization, that there's no one here, nothing happening, because that's just another concept.
Speaker A:So for me, that authenticity of being able to talk to their mom that they haven't talked to like that in years, or someone said that, or someone that was agoraphobia and then traveling around in a van for the past months now.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Living life, living the authenticity, living the directness and not getting caught up in ideas about, you know, whatever in life.
Speaker B:You feel like that's your mission.
Speaker A:What's that?
Speaker B:Do you feel like that's your mission, that your character's mission?
Speaker A:No, no, no.
Speaker A:I just love.
Speaker A:I just love seeing all of this.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I love what I do.
Speaker A:I love what I do.
Speaker A:There's just no more attachment to it.
Speaker A:Like I always say, right.
Speaker A:If this ends tomorrow, then, you know, I'm flipping burgers the next day.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's the same thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Not like a mission here, but, you know, what is arising.
Speaker B:It is, you know, the message that says, well, at some layer, you try to stop seeking.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, because there's a seeker and there's a sought, and the salt is.
Speaker B:Is the seeker.
Speaker B:So if you stop the seeking, then you'll see what it is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It feels like the message that is arising from this character, you know, right now is no man seek harder this is so goddamn beautiful.
Speaker B:The reason why you're.
Speaker B:You're not getting this is because you're not seeking hard enough.
Speaker B:Go all in and eventually you'll get it.
Speaker B:It won't be you getting it, but that's okay.
Speaker B:Don't worry about it.
Speaker B:Just go, you know, just full throttle.
Speaker B:Metal to the.
Speaker B:Well, how do you say it in English?
Speaker B:Metal to the wall.
Speaker B:Pedal to the metal.
Speaker A:Pedal to the metal.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, you know what?
Speaker A:I don't have any advice to give, but yeah, you know what?
Speaker A:I resonate with that because I.
Speaker A:That's what I did, right?
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:But I was suffering so much before it, though.
Speaker B:It was, yeah, same here.
Speaker A:It almost like brought in so much suffering that it was not necessary because I look at my brothers that never got into this, and they seem to lead content lives, right?
Speaker A:They have problems here and there, but nothing like what I took on to.
Speaker A:For me, it was like.
Speaker A:It was almost like there's a.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker B:But your builders were never seekers, though.
Speaker B:I'm referring to not average.
Speaker B:Well, in one layer, everybody's a seeker.
Speaker B:But I'm talking about spiritual seekers.
Speaker B:They're like people who spent 20 years, 30 years seeking.
Speaker B:You know, it's.
Speaker B:It's always that.
Speaker B:It's in the story.
Speaker B:Obviously they haven't spent 20 years, but somehow it's a big part of their identity.
Speaker B:So for those people that I say, just seek harder, man.
Speaker B:Come on, just investigate harder.
Speaker B:Because, you know, all roads lead here, so it is so easy.
Speaker A:But what happens though, if you are relying on someone?
Speaker A:So I have basically been speaking to a lot of people that are 30, 40, 50, even 60 years of seeking.
Speaker A:If you look at, look at my one ones, I highlighted them.
Speaker A:What happens with a lot of people is they keep on encountering people that authoritarian, authoritative in what they're talking about, and they get stuck with that.
Speaker A:So what I do is I take all of that obstacles and basically said, you and I are the same.
Speaker A:If we take away all the words right now, there's no difference between us.
Speaker A:If we take away language, I don't have any wisdom.
Speaker A:So the, the culprit or the, the pitfall or the, the gatekeeping is the very teacher itself.
Speaker A:Because you believe what they're saying.
Speaker A:You believe that they have gotten into something, you know, so this new era is basically kicking off the pedestals.
Speaker A:Instead of waiting for the, for the guru to slap you, you slap the guru and leave.
Speaker A:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker A:Because all they have is very good, you know, that's.
Speaker A:That's what it is.
Speaker A:Because that's what I.
Speaker A:That's what I was doing, was.
Speaker A:I was teaching, teaching, teaching, teaching.
Speaker A:Coming up with new concepts and ideas.
Speaker A:Conceptualizing.
Speaker A:Now I'm undoing and doing and doing.
Speaker A:It's almost like clearing away all of those obstacles.
Speaker A:Like the belief that if you visit a master or something.
Speaker A:That they'll get you somehow.
Speaker A:If you follow a master, then that's just codependency.
Speaker A:That's just.
Speaker A:Basically, you're just believing all the words.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Brother, I love you so much, but I want to respect your time.
Speaker A:Me too.
Speaker B:But I know you have Coles.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know I have.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Much love, brother.
Speaker A:And I'll.
Speaker A:And I'll message you.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:Same here.
Speaker B:Thank you.
